Monday, July 9, 2007

No clear winner

I tried to squeeze in as many points in the ongoing US-Mexico debate in my latest PE column.

Plus, the Top 10 list of US/Mexico accomplishments is on there.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hmm, I disagree with two of your four bullet points.

Pardo, Osorio, Salcido, and Castillo win championships in their quite respectable European leagues, Guardado is entering PSV, Marquez is a fixture in the Barca starting lineup, WHILE: the Fulham boys barely escape relegation, Beasley and Onyewu squander their chances at their EPL tryouts, Donovan doesn't want to play at the world level, YET: you call it Even? Not even close, in my humble opinion.

Future potential: I don't know much about Mexico's youth development system (not clear that you do either :-), but what I see and read of the US system leaves me unimpressed. We seem to excel at developing athletes who can hustle for 120 minutes, while the creative sparks are few and far between (Donovan and Dempsey primarily; Beasley has my head scratching), or are poorly developed (Adu, Quaranta, Mapp)...
WHERAS: Mexico seems to churn them out in much larger numbers. Case in point: if you've watched Barcelona games, you'll see Rafa Marquez often play pinpoint passes out of the backfield to the feet of Ronaldinho or one of the other forwards -- don't know if we've ever produced a midfielder much less a defender of that caliber. Not sure how US has the advantage here... the teams are EVEN at best in this category. (In fact, I'll go so far as to predict that within the next 3 attempts, Mexico will beat US on US soil.) They came mighty close in Chicago, and thoroughly outplayed the US in Arizona.

Joel Aceves said...

L.B,

I like you, always have, always will. However, your final verdict is Bollocks.

I think we can all agree that the team with the most Silverware in their coffers is the best team.

And when comparing the Tricolor to the Stars and Stripes well they might be tied in Gold Cup's but Mexico is still the only CONCACAF country to win two FIFA tournaments.

The 1999 Confederations Cup is the best achievement from a CONCACAF team.

And if it is not then I don't see why the U.S placed more importance in winning the Gold Cup, to play the Confederations, than they did with the far more prestigious Copa America.

Also, giving the U.S the edge in future potential is quite misleading. Last time I checked it was the U-17 Tricolor that was hoisting the youth World Cup!

Moving on to the U-20's - Let us compare notes after the finish their participation in Canada.

Now you mention : Feilhaber, Lee Nguyen, Freddy Adu and Josmer Altidore and completely ignore Giovani Dos Santos.

Does the fact the he will be given a run with Barcelona's first team next season mean nothing!

What about Carlos Vela, already signed with Arsenal and should also be playing first division footy in La Liga.

That still leaves Andres Guardado and Nery Castillo. If we compare these lads to the U.S upstarts the scale will surely tip in Mexico's favor.

Anonymous said...

To help in Luis's point here is small but not complete
list of american players in Europe and all are 22 an under.
If you add Adu, Jozy and Sturgis to this list and they are some
very good young players. Anyone see Adu play lately
during the Under-20 Tournament.

Bradley, Michael Midfielder Heerenveen (Holland)
Davies, Charlie Forward Hammarby IF (Sweden)
Feilhaber, Benny Midfielder Hamburg SV II (Germany)
Ferrari, Gabriel Forward Sampdoria (Italy)
Hill, Kamani Forward VfL Wolfsburg (Germany)
Nguyen, Lee Mid/Fwd PSV Eindhoven (Holland)
Simek, Frank Defender Sheffield Wednesday (England)
Smith, Johann Forward Bolton (England)
Spector, Jonathan Defender West Ham United (England)
Subotic, Neven Defender Mainz 05 (Germany)
Zimmerman, Preston Forward Hamburg SV II (Germany)

Anonymous said...

one thing amazes me in all of this . . . i don't recall any team in any sport that has been clearly dominated by another team, yet claims to be better.

sometimes simplicity leads to the best results: the US team clearly owns mexico, yet mexico's possession style is more condusive to beating other latin teams. with regard to playing european teams, lets be honest . . . short of home cooking, both teams suck at playing european squads.

DMH

Anonymous said...

Not to be biased or anything but Mexico seems to have a much brighter future solely based on the quality of the young players they are producing. In comparison I can maybe think of a handful of young americans with the complete (or close to) package required to play in Europe. Why does your opinion fluxuate so much when it comes to these Mex- USA debates. One day you think Mex is better, the next you say USA is...

Anonymous said...

To end this debate the best team in CONCACAF and maybe the world is the U.S. Women's National Team

Mofo said...

I agree with the entirety of Siva's comment. I think it's great that the US has so many players overseas, but to not even mention Rafael Marquez and his success? I would challenge you to name one US player who has had as much success as he had, winning championships with both Monaco and Barça, and more importantly, the Champions League.

And as for future potential, you not only have Giovanni Dos Santos, you've also got Carlos Vela and the goalie Alfonso Blanco. And let's not underestimate Mexico's youth development system, particularly Atlas' youth academy, which developed Rafael Marquez, Pavel Pardo, and Andres Guardado.

I won't argue that the Mexican NT is way better than the US NT, but in terms of international play, Mexico has been more successful. I think the US is going to continue to get better (just as Mexico will), but they won't be able to compete at the international level unless they send their better players to tourneys like Copa America. What was the point of accepting an invitation to the Copa America if you're not interested in competing?

I do think Mexico is a better team, by the way, they're just woefully inconsistent. They play well against the better teams and play crappy against the crappy teams.

Anonymous said...

classic mexican team excuse. yes you are right, mexico consistently loses to the US because the US is 'crappy'. just to clarify, outside of games played in mexico, how many european squads has mexico beaten?

DMH

Mofo said...

DMH, when I said that Mexico plays crappy against crappy teams, I never said the US was one of those teams. Actually, I think when the US and Mexico meet each other, they both play well. I'd rather Mexico win, naturally, but our biggest problem has always been the inconsistency of our strikers. Hopefully players like Nery Castillo, Giovanni dos Santos, and Carlos Vela will remedy that.

And as for the US consistently beating Mexico? I would tell you why I think that happens, but you'll just chalk it up to another "typical Mexican team excuse."

In regards to Mexico's record against European teams, I don't have the info on hand, but I'm guessing its no worse that that of the US. And why do you have to qualify which games count? A game won counts no matter where it's played. And yes, it counts when the US beats Mexico, on whatever soil. I may not like it, but I accept it.

Being a fan of the Mexican Team doesn't mean I'm going to irrationally justify every game they lose or that I think they're better than everyone else, you know.

I don't even hate the US team, I'll admit to not liking some of the players, but that goes for Mexico too. I hate Cuauhtemoc Blanco and think Borghetti is a total whiner.

And that is all. I'm looking forward to the Mexico v. Argentina match.