Tuesday, April 1, 2008

Beckham and Drew



Ok, it's April 1st, but Drew is serious about what he says in this video. It's an interesting point of view from one of the newest owners in the league. I like the way he worked the soccer analogy and the shots of Chivas USA and Riot Squad members into his whole argument.

55 comments:

shirtees.net said...

Drew likes to spice things up now doesnt he?

My biggest problem is this. Chivas USA panders to Mexican immigrants. Not really "latino" or central or south Americans, but Mexicans. My argument is not USA v. Mexico, but having the US derivative of a Mexican league team here in the US. Even NY Red Bulls is cutting close since they have another Red Bulls in Austria.

I would be equally upset if we saw a Seattle Gamba Osaka team, or a Seattle Spartak, or a Seattle Juvantus, or a Denver Dortmund.

Maybe, and its a big maybe, if Chivas USA renamed themselves to some other name, not country or race specific, opened a new stadium (thankfully not owned by AEG) they would not only double their attendance, but create a better LA rivalry here.

By being "Chivas USA" they are excluding all the other nationalities in Los Angeles... and we have a very diverse group here in the southland.

There was talk of Chivas USA moving to Pomona to build a new stadium. Pomona isnt all Mexican people there. You have a lot of Philipinos, a lot of Scandanavians, a lot of asian decendants... With a global market it just doesnt make sense to have a Chivas USA in southern California. It never did.

Now if they renamed the team Pomona Poland, I might change my story :)

Anonymous said...

How is Chivas pandering to anybody, out the core group of players 2 are mexican. The future of the USMNT is playing for Chivas USA Guzan, Klejshtan, Bornstein.

Is Chivas USA pandering to Cuban refugees by having a star cuban player?

I think the idea may have been Chivas USA as a latino brand at first, but now i see it as a team attitude of attacking soccer.

A.C. said...

Anon, it's good that you're broadminded enough to associate the Chivas name primarily with a style of soccer. I think most people would say, however, that due to Chivas Guadalajara's policy of Mexican players, that's what they associate with the name Chivas - Mexican-only. It's possible that makes some fans feel unwelcome or excluded, though obviously anyone can be a fan, and no team in MLS can field a team on a national basis.

PocketKings said...

shirtees.net,
My biggest problem is we wouldn't be having this conversation about Chivas USA if the Galaxy was a better team. Then you wouldn't care.

Bye the bye, can you tell me how many Argentinians cry about "Arsenal" in the Argentinian League?

How about Athletic Bilbao? They only field players from the Basque region of Spain (which of course is a contested region that wants independence from Spain). Why don't you complain about Bilbao "pandering" to Basque (spanish/french) people?

I'll tell you why... because the Galaxy plays boring long ball, and have not been successful in recent play! And because you don't want to admit that even with 3 defacto DPs, you are being outplayed by the opposition. So your only logical action is to "talk down" the nearest club - Chivas USA.

If you want to watch attractive midfield play, forget about the name of the team. Put on a red shirt and you can sit next to me at a CD CHIVAS USA game. In fact, if you squint and put your thumb over the "Chivas," it looks like Club USA. Nobody will bother you. In fact, I am officially welcoming you to cheer for my team.

Now, if you decline, that is your right (you might be a 10 year Galaxy fan... but I convinced one of them to buy Chivas tickets because he recognizes good soccer when he sees it) but it won't be because you aren't being "pandered" to. It will either be because you are racist (which I hope isn't true) or you are a true hearted Galaxy fan that supports the club whether they win or lose (which is what I am hoping for). And if you are a true blue (or yellow/green) Galaxy fan, then don't blame other teams for their names, blame your GM, because he is a moron!!!

And if my tone of voice or word choice offended you, then I apologize. But the whole "anti-Mexican brand" argument is getting really old. If you like the team, then follow them, if not, then don't. But I don't speak Spanish, and I follow the team just fine. There are plenty of US blogs and info on them.

Anonymous said...

You really have to have your head up your butt to not realize that Chivas USA is one the most diverse teams in the MLS. Multiple players form the future of the USMNT. Bob Bradley rebuilt the goats after 2005.

Andrea, you are better that this to pander to upset Galaxy fans. Nowhere does it say, Mexicans-Only on anything Chivas USA does or says. Do you think soccer fans in SoCal are that stupid to NOT be able to differentiate between the two Chivas. Is the Chivas FO fishing for that mythical, big Mexicano-fanbase-payday that really doesen't exist? You bet. In the meantime, Drew makes some good points in this clip.

I guess some of you didn't get it. Nice of the producer to mention the opinons of Mexican Americans.

ELAC

Anonymous said...

This is really getting old, galaxy fans..You talk about jersey sales,ticket sales, names, etc to compensate for the lack of talent of your team. Lets talk soccer, not marketing.

Man up.

A.C. said...

Elac, you can ignore that the association is there, but I've talked to too many neutral (non-Galaxy) fans about why they don't support Chivas USA instead to ignore the connection that some people do make.
It's not Athletico Bilbao, either. It's as if Athletico Bilbao went to Argentina and said in Basque, "Soccer is here now".
Vergara himself said when he brought the team into MLS (and he could have been trying to stir up publicity)"Latinos versus Gringos". He was quoted by the Economist and other news outlets at the time who are probably not Galaxy fans.
That doesn't mean that many Chivas USA fans look past that beginning or don't let it bother them and cheer for the club for other reasons. But the argument seems hypocritical when it's phrased as "you're making stuff up that isn't there". Why would anyone have to block out the "Chivas" part of the name when looking at the uniform if it had no affect at all, if it was meaningless?
By the way, plenty of Mexican fans won't cheer for Chivas USA because they are die-hard fans of other Mexican teams. They've told me that they like the MLS team, but the name Chivas is a turnoff because they've always booed Chivas.

PocketKings said...

AC
I know that the '05 campaign began with stirring up the "chivas" fans, but it has evolved into so much more than that today.

Steven Coehn, from Fox Football Phone-in, commented that the new Chivas kits reminded him of the Sunderland uniform. So, should we change the stripes to not offend the anti-sunderland fans?

It all boils down to the play of the game. Can the "soccer fan" recognize "the beautiful game" or are we blinded by the colors of the uniforms or the name on the crest?

To prove my point, I'll go so far as to say that I truly dislike Blanco theatrics and attitude, but if he signed a contract with Chivas USA and contributed on the pitch... I would still buy my Chivas Season Tickets! Even if they signed Landon Donavan, I would still cheer for the team!

I don't care what they wear or what you call them. If Preki is on the bench, and Guzan, Bornstein, shavar, claudio, vaughn, sasha, paulo, marsch, mendoza, galindo, razov, and all the new aquisitions are on the pitch, then those are the guys I'm cheering for. Call them what you want. FCLA, City of Angels FC ... they could wear black and red, purple and pink....

But since they wear the rojiblanco, and they are called CD Chivas USA, then that is just the way it is. As the bumber sticker says.... USA - Love it or leave it.

Anonymous said...

Today, a petition was started to change the name of the LA Galaxy to the California Cosmos. GM Lalas is considering the name change because the team actually plays in Carson. The marketing strategy for the team also approves because the Cosmo name ties into the NASL NY Cosmos, which stars like Pele and "The Kaiser" played for. AEG believes that Beckham and Donovan can be cast into the Cosmos's superstar shadows, and it will attract fans from other regions of Southern California that don't like to be associated with the city of LA.

The Manly Ferry said...

Um...I'm mainly impressed that the Belgian dude's kid's reaction to Carey's question about whether he was excited about Beckham coming was so informed.

OK, the other stuff is important and interesting as well. But I'm a long-time reader of Reason.

The Hammer said...

Pocketings, through Galaxy's worst years we've managed to make 4 finals in 3 tournaments in the past 3 years. Stop trying to derail the topic, Chivas USA's monumental failure as a business has NOTHING to do with Galaxy.

Chivas USA is still chasing after their original target demographic. Why aren't the Chivas Guadalajara fans coming out? "You're the fake Chivas" is what focus groups have revealed.

PocketKings said...

Hammer,
Actually the topic was about Drew Carrey making the comment that "some Americans" welcome certain types of immigrants while being very un-welcoming to other types.

Then shirtees.net started talking about why Chivas USA should change their name so they won't be so "mexican" in order to increase their fan base.

I thought that he just proved Carrey's point, and then proceeded to accuse him of either being a die-hard galaxy fan or a racists (of which I rather he was a die hard galaxy fan). I also accused him, and other people, of not being able to recognize a team that plays good soccer because all he could do was focus on the name/colors.

Now you want to talk about tournaments and marketing strategies? (Do the stars still align?) Have you seen the latest marketing from Galaxy? "Football, Futbol, Soccer" - Really clever... why don't you just put a picture of Beckham, Ruiz, and Donavon, in that order under the words. Why didn't they put the Portuguese word for soccer with a picture of Xavier next to it? Talk about "pandering" to the new demographics with a Ruiz reference!
***************************
Did you watch the Drew Carrey video? Do you really think he was talking about marketing strategies? About fan attendance?

I thought it was about ideas like the melting pot, and how the statue of liberty says one thing, and middle America says something else.

So MC Hammer, read the entire blog and watch the video before you make ridiculous comments.

Da da da da....
da da
da da
"Can't touch this!"

just another one of you said...

The longer Chivas USA works on creating their own identity on the field the better off they'll be. I find it interesting how Drew's Reason piece fits in with Chivas in that the entire brand is an immigrant. Brands have immigrated before (e.g. Toyota) and they always have to deal with the stigma that preceeded their arrival.

Sure, Chivas made a mistake by not thinking about how there are more non-Chivas Mexican soccer fans than Chivas fans, but they obviously didn't want to disenfranchise their own brand equity. Perhaps they should have filled the team with only Mexican players who were born in the US to put an interesting/neo-nativist twist on it. Either way my point is, the more Chivas wins, the less it matters what other organization is cashing the checks. I got into Chivas b/c of Galindo due to my own Cuban heritage, and stuck around b/c they played a style that was fun to watch. Sure, one day Galindo will be gone, but by then I would have already attached my loyalty to his teammates that remain. Chivas USA is creating it's own history, and once they start winning their own trophies then will people stop associating them with the team they share a brand name with.

In the end, I really think the team's biggest mistake was setting up shop in LA, but leaving now would be a bigger mistake.

RHdigitalYS said...

@anon You can talk all you want about Chivas USA not pandering to anyone but when have they really reached out to any community besides the Mexican American/Immigrant community?

And even with such a high profile team, going by its branding (it's not an LA team), plenty of the Mexican kids I grew up playing soccer with are still Galaxy supporters. Even though we've been priced out of the seats we've been buying all these years the passion for LA still remains.

I just wish they had put Chivas USA in a market they could fully tap, San Diego. At least I'd be able to see some quality soccer at an affordable price instead of shelling for gas/ticket/wtfparking money now.

A.Ruiz said...

LA Aztec would have been a way way better game and you know, George Best's body could have been displayed there, Lenin-like.
They would have made a tidy profit just on Manchester United fans on a pilgrimage.

PocketKings said...

I read what "just another one of you" wrote a few minutes ago, and after a moment of reflection, I have to agree with what she/he said. It was a mistake to completely brand the franchise to one team in the FMF when you are trying to establish a fan base. They did distance themselves from fans from other clubs.

And as much as I would love to support THE CITY OF ANGELS FC, what's done is done! And it would be a bigger mistake to be run out of the city by a bunch of disgruntled galaxy fans and Chivas de Guadalajara - haters.

CDCUSA fans are just going to have to grin and bear it for the next 5-10 years when the youth system pushes out not only new players, but new fans of the team. That and a couple of trophies wouldn't hurt either!!

Hey Hammer.....
2005 - disaster
2006 - qualified for the playoffs
2007 - Western conference champs
2008 - ?

Not a bad learning curve...you've got to admit at least that.

RHdigitalYS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RHdigitalYS said...

Hey Hammer.....
2005 - disaster
2006 - qualified for the playoffs
2007 - Western conference champs
2008 - ?

Not a bad learning curve...you've got to admit at least that.


And in an inverse relationship (exponential?), your very own La Galaxy... :E

The Hammer said...

RHdigitalYS...

2005 - MLS Cup Champions
2005 - US Open Cup Champions
2006 - US Open Cup Runners-Up
2007 - Superliga Runners-Up

And those are the 3 worst years in Galaxy history.

Anonymous said...

yada, yada -- do all these comment sections degenerate so quickly?

In any event, thanks for the link to the video -- very interesting and much appreciated.

Edward said...

I agree, great video; wish more celebs would do similar pieces.

Anonymous said...

I'm not ignoring sh*t! Last time I checked, my calendar said 2008 not 2005!

If you fixate on the name/brand Chivas, you'll miss out on one of the best, if not, the best team in the MLS.

Andrea, I respect your opinion. Hogwash as it is, the only valid point is that Vergara and Cue we're stupid for thinking this team could be successful with that 2005 lineup. Since, Chivas USA has demonstrated upside and results and Galaxy has produced the David Beckham Circus world tour.

Be real. Be honest. Be ELAC.

just another one of you said...

AC, real questions here- Any reaction from the Gals on Ruiz being out 4-6 weeks?

Any chance that the team drops the overpriced contracts of Vagenas, Klien, and Vanney to bring in some younger talent?

Has anyone in the Galaxy organization taken a scouting trip? If so, to where and when?

Thanks

RHdigitalYS said...

@hammer I was being sarcastic but we missed the playoffs two years in a row. Those runner-up finishes were anomalies in seasons plagued by injury and inconsistency on the field. 2005 was a good year though.

off-topic: http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/chat/deportes/chatDep?event_id=19924

AC/LB, do you mind giving a coherent translation? Babelfish is :(

Anonymous said...

Kudos to Drew for telling it it like is! The guy has a compassionate and kind heart. He certainly is the anti-O'Reilly!

Anonymous said...

Corrected version.

Kudos to Drew for telling it like it is! The guy has a compassionate and kind heart. He certainly is the anti-O'Reilly!

artnsue said...

Why is that these discussions always leave out that immigration should be legal immigration. Sure I totally agree with Drew that peaceful loving people should have the opportunity to come to America, but please go through the ropes as the original hardworking immigrants did and do it legally.....even Drew's video talks about such immigrants arriving at Ellis Island and doing it legally with documentation.

Anonymous said...

Artnsue...

Ellis Island, the "legal way" back in the day took a couple of hours. The "legal way" today can take up to 20 years if you're from certain countries.

Not to mention that for everybody who came through Ellis legally, there were a handful who came through Canada illegally.

Anonymous said...

artnsue,
Your post is a little off key as no one here was sanctioning or proposing illegal immigration. We all want legal immigration. There was no debate on that aspect of the issue in this thread.

Drew approached the subject without demonizing the immigrants or the issue, like so many pundits and politicians who use the issue to gain more political power and/or money. So maybe your beef lies with Drew who, perhaps, did not express himself as strongly as you would have liked on the the aspect of the "illegals".

Anonymous said...

slight correction to post above...

...like so many pundits and politicians DO who use the issue to gain more political power and/or money.

Anonymous said...

i wonder if drew lives in south oc? all those restaurants at the end of the video were from dana point

man-from-michigan said...

There are many Chivas GDL fans that support Chivas USA. The mistake that Vergara and Co. made was to assume that everyone was going to follow the Brand with no questions asked. There are Chivas GDL fans that support the Gals, everyone has the right to support whoever they want, it is a different league. In the UNION ULTRAS, the Exclusive Supporters Group of Chivas USA, there are members that support Cruz Azul, Pumas, Atlante and Santos in the FMF. We have members that do not support Chivas GDL at all. We have USMNT and MNT supporters as well. Let's not continue to dwell on the past. All it does is show how desperate people continue to be when their so-called team is in the hole!!! I invite and welcome all fans to join us in this new chapter in Chivas USA history where the future continues to look very bright!!! www.unionultras.com

Michoacano

Anonymous said...

As a fan-Chivas USA puts a good product on the field...as a marketing/brand proposition, it is a disaster so far...

The Chivas brand is only positive to fans of the mother ship in GDL; which alienates half of the immigrants (Atlas fans) from GDL; all the rest of the Mexican immigrants who support other teams; and all the Central Americans/other immigrants/gringos that by definition that are excluded by Chivas GDL's Mexican-only policy.

There is also the "fake Chivas" question-in fact, that's exactly what we call them in our house (vs. real Chivas)...

Based on the fact that the brand alienates 2/3 of their market, it's a failure-and rebranding should be considered....

However-think of this-by doing the youth academies,etc-they identify talent not only for CHivas USA but for the mothership as well...if a kid is talented but undocumented, he just goes back to GDL....

RHdigitalYS said...

Maybe a combination of the Galaxy's stellar marketing and Chivas' well run operation would really create the LA superclub Lalas—AEG natch—are dreaming of.

On immigration: It's not the immigrants, illegal or legal, that's the problem in my eyes. For all the hubbub about being patriotic/unpatriotic, America was built on accepting immigrants no matter what circumstances they came. Maybe not accommodating them in every way, but as long as they work hard it shouldn't be a problem, but then is there much value to hard work anymore in the eyes of the average American?

Anonymous said...

yawn . . . . . .

papa bear said...

A.C said it perfectly. It's kinda obvious some of you aren't from LA. There is a strong FMF fan base and America fans simply aren't going to root for Chivas USA. It doesn't matter if it is made up 100% of ex-America players. Marioni was reportedly in talks with CUSA but is edging against it since he doesn't want to play for a team called Chivas. On top of that, many non-Mexican fans I know here won't root for a team named after an FMF team since the National team rivalry has carried over to club competition.
It doesn't matter if the entire roster is white Swedes, it will always be perceived as a Mexican team that is for Mexicans (due to the parent club's policy) Even if their new plan to nurture Mexican-American talents in the youth system and bring them up in a reimagining of the Chivas d. Guad model, they will still have the stigma of being Chivas.
It sucks for them because I personally think they play the most attractive football in the league, but they will always be running uphill here.

@April 1, 2008 5:25 PM
Anonymous said...
re legal immigration: I have NEVER heard of anyone needing 20 years to get a work visa who didn't have 'exceptional' circumstances. A big part of my job is getting work visas for working actors (i.e. non-skilled laborers) and that usually takes all of a month at best provided they have the fees. This 'it takes 20 years' crap is so old, played out and outright false it's pathetic.
The only people who experience delays even approaching that are people with criminal pasts who (rightly) are put through the ringer.


Oh and to the Athletic Bilbao and Arsenal de Sarandi comparisions, if you can't see how that isn't = to the Chivas USA problem I don't know what to tell ya.
Arsenal de Sarandi wasn't named after Arsenal in England. Athletic Bilbao being all Basque players works totally fine since they are in Basque country. If Chivas USA was California USA and fielded only players from California, they wouldn't have the issues they have now.

papa bear said...

oh and one point on the video (I guess that is supposed to be the point) I think Drew is bending the issue a bit. I know plenty of people who have ZERO issues with Latinos of any stripe but have big issues with illegals.
My roommate is 100% Mexican (as in, he was born there) and immigrated LEGALLY with his family a long time ago. He is about as opposed to illegal immigration as anyone I've ever met.
I am in the same exact camp. I don't care where they come from, if they are here illegally then I have an issue. No matter what country they are from originally. (because there is a nice chunk of people still sneaking in from former Soviet nations and other places)

Anonymous said...

papa bear,
Was your choice of the "papa bear" moniker influenced in any way by Stephen Colbert and his show? Just wondering.

Edward said...

@ papa bear

I dunno, maybe I'm partial to the issue because my parents came here illegally, but it seems I turned out alright. My parents and I aren't degrading the fabric of America, we don't refuse to speak English, and they never asked for government help while here illegally. It wasn't until Reagan made them legal that they became citizens.

Now I realize my situation might be in the minority, but don't you think it's worth it to give these people a chance, the ones who make a real effort to help this country out? It took my aunt 12 years to get her immigrant visa before she could move to the States permanently; it also took familial connections here in America, many hundreds of dollars in fees, and wading through the redtape and hoops that the current, broken system has in place. Illegal immigration needs fixing, but until something is done about the system through which legal immigration is conducted, nothing will change in the foreseeable future.

Anonymous said...

Papa Bear,

My aunt and family came here legally and it took them 15 years to get their green card. Add 5 years to become citizens. 20 years.

It would've been a lot easier if she'd been from El Salvador. Salvadorians pretty much get a free pass at the immigration offices. Takes them a couple of months, even with criminal records.

Anonymous said...

ps. I wasn't talking about work visas, work visas are a different issue altogether and getting a work visa doesn't really constitute immigrating. Theoretically, a work visa is intended to be temporary.

There's a world of difference between trying for a work visa, and trying for a green card. As you said it, given the right circumstances, work visa = couple of months.

Take a look at the dates of application that are currently being processed [ie. people who applied that year are just now being called in to get their green cards] in the Department of State's Visa Bulletin:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4177.html

Anonymous said...

I agree with Edward 100%, I'm also the product of parents who were illegal aliens and were given legal status through amnesty during Reagan's administration, and I'm always irked by the belief that illegals only serve to destroy the fabric of the country or hate the US, and so on. My parents have always been grateful to the US, and never asked for handouts from the government. And I know of a lot of illegal families that have done the same. Sometimes people just don't have the luxury of waiting 10-15 years to immigrate to a country. To me it doesn't matter if you're illegal, as long as you end up giving back to the country.

PocketKings said...

Papa Bear ......HUH?

"Athletic Bilbao being all Basque players works totally fine since they are in Basque country. If Chivas USA was California USA and fielded only players from California, they wouldn't have the issues they have now."

Basque is not a "country." It is a region in Spain. Only people from that region can play for that team...

Guadalajara is a city in Mexico. Only people born in Mexico can play for that team.

I know it isn't ExAcTlY the same, but they do follow the same thought process... they both allow certain types of people to play for their club. If you don't get that... then I don't know what to tell you.

And another thing... if your parents believed in UFOs, does that mean that you have to believe in UFOs??? No?!? Then just because Guadalajara has a Mexican-only policy, why does that necessarily transfer to Chivas USA???

And if you believe my argument is silly, than let me help you count the number of Mexican only starters... SUAREZ (1), MENDOZA (2) and .... huh .... errr .... ummmm... that's it!

We all know that the ownership believed that they could bring a few players from South of the Border and think that they could conqueror MLS ... and we all agreed that it failed .... but the club has evolved into something greater than that. Some people actually learn from their mistakes, instead of repeating them (Ruiz??).

Let's put down the Hater-aid and take a fresh look that the team. Not based on past biases, but on performance and what is on the field.

Three cheers for the Red, White, and Blue -------- Go (Chivas) USA!!!

Anonymous said...

Fake Chivas?!?

Well, since fake butter and fake milk (soy) seems to be better for you... Then I guess Fake Chivas must be better for you too!

Riogali said...

I’m sorry, I usually lurk around here, but I couldn’t help but respond to this post by “papa bear”.

“A.C said it perfectly. It's kinda obvious some of you aren't from LA. There is a strong FMF fan base and America fans simply aren't going to root for Chivas USA. It doesn't matter if it is made up 100% of ex-America players. “

It’s kinda obvious that you’re still in 2005 with this comment. True, Chivas USA did limit it’s fanbase by naming itself after Club Guadalajara, but people have since gotten beyond that to the point where the fans in general are a very diverse crowd of FMF, and “average joe” fans seeking good soccer in Los Angeles. A.C. is only clinging to that fact to appease people like you.

“Marioni was reportedly in talks with CUSA but is edging against it since he doesn't want to play for a team called Chivas.”

Nowhere has Bruno Marioni said that he’s hesitating because he “doesn’t want to play for a team called Chivas”. Bruno Marioni will be 33 this year and has been quoted as saying that he finally feels situated in Guadalajara with his family, and what Atlas has proposed as a long term plan. He has also said that he doesn’t know how much longer his knee can hold up, and has put off any talks until seasons end because he’s a professional and has respect for his current club.

Please don’t twist a player’s words to fit into your argument.

“On top of that, many non-Mexican fans I know here won't root for a team named after an FMF team since the National team rivalry has carried over to club competition.
It doesn't matter if the entire roster is white Swedes, it will always be perceived as a Mexican team that is for Mexicans (due to the parent club's policy) Even if their new plan to nurture Mexican-American talents in the youth system and bring them up in a reimagining of the Chivas d. Guad model, they will still have the stigma of being Chivas.”


This myopic standpoint has been brought up many times over the course of the past 2 years – this makes it three. The parent club is its own entity, and while initially Vergara and Co. tried to bring the same philosophy to MLS, it immediately backfired due to a lack of Mexican-American talent readily available to compete in MLS. Since then, the club is on the verge of becoming a breeding ground for the USMNT with a enviable youth system which will revolutionize the way talent is brought up through the league. If the non-Mexican fans you know fail to acknowledge where the national team players they root for – or will be rooting for - are being formed, and play club ball, then that’s a problem all their own. The “stigma” only remains to those who have a different agenda.

“It sucks for them because I personally think they play the most attractive football in the league, but they will always be running uphill here…If Chivas USA was California USA and fielded only players from California, they wouldn't have the issues they have now.”


The effects of year one still linger, but they have gotten over that hump by putting an excellent product on the field which most 10 year old clubs have yet to accomplish. Front office changes have taken place and will be their first year in charge. How they will market the club remains to be seen, but there’s nowhere to go but up.

As to your last statement, you seem to be contradicting yourself. Wouldn’t having an All-California team be limiting its fan base to California?

Lastly, I like visiting this blog, and I understand that you have a certain type of fan you cater to here, but it no longer surprises me to see anything Chivas related on here shown in a negative light. I’m not asking to be catered to either, but try to make it a bit more subtle.

Anonymous said...

www.unionultras.com

I'm sorry the Galaxy is so horrible of a franchise right now that its easier to pick on the little Chivas/Fake chivas/shitvas/Chivas-Lite-brand to make yourselves feel better.

Drew spoke the truth and I'm down with that. Chivas marketing? How about the "The Stars align" fiasco? "Jewel of the MLS?" Nobody's perfect.

WE are a country of immigrants andn Chivas USA has done more to prove that with its roster than anybody in LA.

Time for a beer.

-ELAC

A.C. said...

Riogali,

You are entitled to your own opinion, but don't twist mine to suit yours and don't presume to know what my thoughts and motivations are.

I have conversations with people in Los Angeles all the time about whether they are going to MLS games, what MLS team they support, and why. The Chivas fanbase may be growing in diversity and size but it has struggled and I'm not surprised, because the answers people give me about that team haven't changed much. If anything, it's gotten worse, because a lot more people said at the start that they were interested in watching Ramon Ramirez and Paco Palencia. Now even people who know about the team say things like, "Yeah, I know about Chivas USA, but who plays for them that I want to watch? Suarez, he's getting old. They should get Bofo or someone exciting."
Now, do I tell them that Galindo is one of the most dynamic players in MLS? No, but I also don't say anything to people who tell me that Beckham came to LA to be an actor. It's not my job to change their opinion. I'm trying to get a sense of people's honest impressions. I'm not going to lecture them on what they should think or believe.
The ones who know Chivas and don't like Chivas Guadalajara still don't give Chivas USA a chance, and they still say they aren't going to. The ones who like Chivas and don't think Chivas USA is authentic enough still feel that way. The ones who haven't heard of Chivas Guadalajara just wonder why Chivas USA is named Chivas USA.
That's just my experience. I'd love find out my sample is wrong, and that there will be big home crowds to welcome the great players on the team in a manner they deserve, but I doubt it, because it doesn't jibe with what I'm hearing.
As far as our bias with this blog, here's a simple fact - Luis and I cover both LA teams, and we have for years written stories about both of them, but we don't pick our assignments. Looking at the number of stories written about one team or another by either of us isn't evidence of anything but what assignments our various editors have given us. We've managed to piss off both Galaxy and Chivas fans on this blog, and if both sides are mad, that proves more than anything that we're holding to our own perceptions and not catering to anyone. It's our blog, we cover both teams, and if you don't care for it, feel free to say so, but accusations of bias and hidden agendas whenever you don't agree with our opinions are weak.

Anonymous said...

I dislike all teams from Los Angeles, (especially Dodgers, Lakers, USC, and now Galaxy), I usually accuse them of cheating, having obnoxious entitled fans or some combination thereof.

And my family loves Club America, and despises Chivas de Guadalajara.

Portland doesn't have MLS for the very short time being...so I started dabbling in Chivas USA out of curiosity.

Here is what I learned:
1. They play a great style, a mixture of attack, flair, discipline, and physical play.

2. What an amazing youth system they are developing.

3. That uniform ain't so bad afterall, and all the beautiful diversity they have makes it look even better.

4. If they played the Timbers in the US Open Cup, the stadium would be packed and I would be excited.

5. I still dislike all LA teams, so I'm glad Chivas USA is not, "Chivas of LA" or "Chivas de LA", or some LA reference.

*Once the Timbers are rolling in MLS, all bets are off.

BBSC

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

There are perfectly good reasons why Chivas USA doesn't attract more fans, despite the fact that it's a leading contender for MLS Cup.

1. Parking and concession prices are out of reach of most of the fan base. It's no accident that I nicknamed AEG, "Amazingly Enterprising Gougers."

2. The stadium itself is not centrally located to the team's fan base.

3. More importanty, MLS has no freaking idea about how to reach the large Latino-immigrant market in this country. They think that all you have to do is "brand" a team with a popular nickname and fans will come running.

The suits at MLS (especially Commissioner Garber) should come to Dodger Stadium when the Mets or Cubs are in town, or Angel Stadium when the Yankees or Red Sox are in town.

Those visiting teams attract large out-of-town fan bases because the were a legitimate link to those fans' pasts. They're a connection to those fans' childhood. Is Chivas USA a connection to anybody's childhood who is now an adult?

Moreover, such narrow "branding" alienates fans who have Guatemalan or Salvadoran ancestry (of which there are plenty here), as well as Mexican fans who don't root for Chivas Guadalajara. Why should they root for a team with which they have no natural or personal connection?

If the team were branded as "Club America USA," the exact same problems would exist.

But this is what happens when you have "experts" in "marketing" who are isolated from reality running your league.

4. Perhaps most importantly, this area cannot support two MLS teams. Chivas USA's success should make that readily apparent. It's about time people started thinking in those terms instead of in ethnic ones.

Anonymous said...

Chivas usa is what it is, there are many haters in LA, it must mean we're doing something right to piss them off and spout off the same talking points from 2005.

Harping on to one or two comments from a distant owner sure doesn't seem smart..So what if he said "us vs. gringos", it clearly hasn't been that way for THREE YEARS!

If anything MLS fans, or atleast people that give a damn about MLS, should be offended by the comments and marketing of galaxy. It's an embarrasement to our league and a slap to the face of MLS fans.

Drew is basicly trying to put a spin on the galaxy fan's blatant racism towards the legion and even the common chiva usa fan. There is plenty documentation of this.

None is asking for non-chiva FMF fans to like this club, so why do you ask them if they like Chivas USA? I don't care if chiva guadalajara fans like my team, as long as there is an organic fanbase we will be alright.

Central, South and North Americans are all welcomed to love my club. If they have personal prejudices towards a Mexican brand then it's their problem, not Chivas.

Joseph D'Hippolito said...

If anything MLS fans, or atleast people that give a damn about MLS, should be offended by the comments and marketing of galaxy. It's an embarrasement to our league and a slap to the face of MLS fans.

Anonymous, you are absolutely correct on this point! The Galaxy is so infatuated with becoming a "world brand" and a "super club" that it's willing to alienate anybody and everybody to do so. Leiweke and Lalas have treated Galaxy fans like dirt (jacking up parking by $5 as soon as Beckham arrived, failing to send media guides to season-ticket holders as it did in the past, overcharging on concessions, etc.) Read Lalas' latest interview on ESPN.com and you'll see what a corporate tool he has become. He and Leiweke aren't only drinking the Kool-Aid, they're brewing it!

As I told a.c. earlier, D.C. United is the real "jewel of MLS." The Galaxy has become a suppository.

Riogali said...

A.C.,

Your opinions didn’t have to be twisted all that much to suit my opinion.

As far as attendance, and recognition struggles I do agree with you. However, to say that it will not grow substantially over time because of what some people have said on the street, or the circles you run is very short sighted. If anything, the sample is proof that the front office hasn’t been doing it’s job marketing this team to the point where most aren’t familiar with the names on the team.

The all-things-Mexican hating MLS fans may never embrace the team, nor will the America fans,. Would they be welcomed? Sure. Will they be needed? I hope not. What I believe will ultimately determine how successful this club will become is what takes place on the field. This is something that has always been superseded by constant reminders of weak attendance, the lack of a big name, and its parent club’s policy, (a policy which, just recently, was attacked on this very blog) almost as if they want this project to fail. I’m not saying I am the end-all say-all on this matter, but I think that my belief is a bit more logical as opposed to the statistics derived from a sample of fans.

In regards to the bias, you act as if you’re incapable of writing a subjective piece. We’re all swayed one way or another by our own perceptions. While I understand that you’re given assignments since, after all, it is your profession I feel that the blog should be an outlet where you can educate the masses rather than allowing them to remain ignorant merely by providing a forum for their “honest impressions”.

A.C. said...

I'm not shy about expressing my personal opinions on this blog or elsewhere, but I'm talking about what I say and do when I'm out and about gathering opinions. That's where I try to remain the most neutral. Once again, you've twisted my viewpoint, because I never said that the outlook and fanbase of Chivas USA couldn't change in the future. I shared my observations in the here and now. Frankly, your view that the on-field product matters above all else is contradicted by both Chivas USA itself and the ardent fan base for TFC, for example. Or the 2005 Earthquakes. It's not just the good play on the field that matters.
Your own bias is obvious, especially since, you imply that revealing the Jesus Padilla story was somehow an attack on Guadalajara and its policy. It was investigative reporting to uncover the facts of the situation. You're looking for an agenda, fine. But the actual job reporters are supposed to do is to to inform.

Riogali said...

Since you say that your opinion takes place in the present, I’m going to disagree for the sake of arguing. I think as early as this year we’ll see an improvement in attendance. A bold statement, but I’m saying it nonetheless.

The examples you provided are 3 unique situations.
- Toronto was already a soccer town who with a willing and able ownership has shown what Canada can contribute to the North American soccer landscape. It’s a matter of time before they begin to get competitive.
- Even as an MLS novice I know that San Jose relocated by AEG after failing to secure a stadium deal with the city, and in Houston have continued their winning ways.

I’d go into Chivas as well, but we’re all too familiar with those talking points. In the end, it appears each team has/had a different situation to deal with. All of these things I’m sure you’re aware of , but I fail to see the correlation between what Chivas is going through, and those 2 clubs.

What may seem like a bias to you, is my way of pointing out that the “revelation” as you so call it, was a total non-issue. Guadalajara’s tradition was actually “broken” well before Gerardo MasacareƱo. Jesus Padilla was a well known dual citizen since the US nats tried to cap him, and he refused. Where were you to question his duality then? Carlos Borja had been in Chivas USA’s ranks for a little under a year before he was transferred into Guadalajara’s youth system and was no shock to those of us who actually follow the team closely that he was not born in Mexico. Why it got so much attention is beyond me.

A.C. said...

I beg to differ that the Padilla story was a non-issue, because those who know the Chivas tradition well know why Mascareno was chased out of the club. Claudio Suarez was playing for Chivas at the time, and he was very clear in my interview that where Gerardo was born was a big problem for many of the fans. The tradition has been Mexican-born for a long, long time. The exceptions were either kept secret during their playing days or led to controversy and eventually, departure from the club. We had newspapers from Mexico calling us and putting the story on their front pages, so the idea that it was an inconsequential revelation is silly.
As far as Chivas USA goes, sure, let's see what the season holds.