tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post8727554521362322270..comments2023-11-05T03:31:19.545-08:00Comments on Sideline Views: Toronto doesn't represent wellA.C.http://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-12373827998349069842008-07-30T13:36:00.000-07:002008-07-30T13:36:00.000-07:00AC, thank you for your responses to my two comment...AC, thank you for your responses to my two comments, and I appreciate that you are not "painting us with a wide brush". I agree with you that the MLS should expand to cities where fans respect the game and their neighbours. If I may make one last point, there is one Canadian city in particular that fits this description. <BR/><BR/>Our rivals, The Montreal Impact, are a proud, well supported USL team for over 12 years with fans who deserve to host MLS level competition. They built a new stadium with a natural grass pitch so good that the Canadian National team wanted all of their WC qualifying games to be played there. I hope the all-star game antics do not hurt their bid to get into MLS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-2537994601355055572008-07-30T10:39:00.000-07:002008-07-30T10:39:00.000-07:00Hey, I'm against painting all TFC fans with the sa...Hey, I'm against painting all TFC fans with the same wide brush, let alone all Canadians.<BR/>If anything, my harshest criticism is for the league in this instance, which seems to have been seduced by a sold-out BMO and some enthusiastic cheers into granting TFC all sorts of unearned favors, like the All-Star game, not to mention the pass they still get for streamers. <BR/>While we can quibble about exactly how many many streamers were thrown at Beckham, I hope that the "best fans in MLS" label can be put to rest. I'm not saying the TFC fans picked that description for themselves - perhaps some starry-eyed media people bestowed it - but it has to be pretty clear that with whatever percentage of TFC fans took part in the worst of the All-Star Game antics, it was enough to kill that label dead.<BR/>Hopefully, the incidents are enough to make league administration take a clear-eyed and objective look at all future franchises, wherever they may be, not just at the season ticket deposits. It's important that the next MLS team has fans that really respect the game, and can have fun with it without becoming obnoxious.A.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-61269102235054741162008-07-30T09:32:00.000-07:002008-07-30T09:32:00.000-07:00THANK YOU for this great article. I was skeptical...THANK YOU for this great article. I was skeptical about adding Toronto to the league, and I'm against adding more Canadian teams. If there's so much interest up there now, let them start their own league. One of the main purposes of MLS is to develop American talent and the game here. How is that served by including divergent elements like this which take away from the spirit of a common goal? They don't seem to share that which the rest of MLS fans do. Most other MLS fans will cheer for their rivals when they're in international competition or players on national team duty. I'm tired of the Canadian attitude, the inferiority complex, the disrespect, the narcissistic press and fans - we don't need more of this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-88349077726543131652008-07-30T07:21:00.000-07:002008-07-30T07:21:00.000-07:00RE: those posts demanding TFC get out of the leagu...RE: those posts demanding TFC get out of the league, get over it, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. Toronto being granted a franchise was a BUSINESS DECISION. The franchise makes money. TFC fans travel to nearby cities and buy tickets to watch the game, which means more revenue for those other teams. MLS will never kick us out as long as the greenbacks come in. We'd love our own league, but our Soccer Association never seriously pursued it (and likely never will).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-87014433852037282242008-07-30T07:09:00.000-07:002008-07-30T07:09:00.000-07:00Those black streamers were thrown at Beckham in th...Those black streamers were thrown at Beckham in the North West corner, and I say myself that the culprits wore West Ham jerseys. A lot of TFC fans are from our large ex-patriot Brit population, so most of those guys are BMO Field regulars who support TFC on any other day, and are used to throwing streamers on the field.<BR/><BR/>On that point, alot of the hardcore Toronto supporters in the south stands are also Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City fans, and they have loathed David Beckham since his Manchester United days, hence the shower of streamers at both south ends. I would have loved to see them put that aside and cheer for him and others at the All Star game too, but that is like asking Red Sox fans to cheer for Alex Rodriguez at the MLB all star game. (I can confirm that the North East corner --- on the side I was seated --- had very few streamers thrown, and Beckham took a few corners there in the first half.) I am saying this not to try and change your opinion of us, but to give the facts to those who will read your blog and make wrong assumptions.<BR/><BR/>Let's set the record straight on something, I never condoned what those fans did during the national anthem. I meant the confusion itself was understandable. We'll agree to disagree on that. One thing I will agree with you, that on a whole, we are not the league's best fans (we never claimed to be). Just remember that there were a lot of fans like me who did not boo or sing over anyone's national anthem, even though we were confused why the English and U.S. Flag made a separate appearance (ESPN's arrangement to sandwich player intros in between two visitor anthems and the local anthem has never been done in a sporting event that I can remember). And a simple announcement to explain the arrangements would have silenced the boorish ones who embarassed the rest of us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-68580849154061343312008-07-29T21:51:00.000-07:002008-07-29T21:51:00.000-07:00Toronto should stay out of MLS and start their own...Toronto should stay out of MLS and start their own league. It would be like TJ been part of the MLS.(egh) Canada get out of MLS and Start your own league. Since Canadians fans get butt hurt about players not representing in a ridiculous game in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-35125415404988890352008-07-29T12:11:00.000-07:002008-07-29T12:11:00.000-07:00No, the fact is I watched the broadcast and Beckha...No, the fact is I watched the broadcast and Beckham took corners on both sides (and ends) and got streamers thrown at him then. Also, please, since when have West Ham fans thrown black streamers? Are you saying that the streamers thrown on the ESPN desk were from West Ham fans? I think not. I also doubt that all the boos heard for every non-Canadian player on the broadcast were from West Ham fans only. It's interesting that you point out that your section didn't boo or sing over the U.S. anthem, but then point out how understandable it was that others did. If it was so easy to get confused - and I simply don't believe it was, because every home field gets its anthem played last - why did your section have no problem understanding that the U.S. anthem should play without abuse?A.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-47764655858510039082008-07-29T08:31:00.000-07:002008-07-29T08:31:00.000-07:00FYI, Andrea, those streamers aimed at Beckham were...FYI, Andrea, those streamers aimed at Beckham were thrown by West Ham United supporters (you know, the same team whose supporters fought with Columbus fans last week). They were mostly in the west stands and numbered in the hundreds. If you were there at the game, surely you saw them cheering at Dean Ashton's first goal and booing the MLS side. Or do you want to lump them in with the TFC faithful as well, and further twist the facts to bash Toronto fans? <BR/><BR/>For the record, the fans that did so, were wrong to boo the national anthems and sing over them. I sat on the east side stands, and we did NOT boo or start singing until the US anthem stopped. I was embarrassed others did. I was surprised too, because at every single TFC game I have been to (Season Ticket Holder) the US anthem was respected and loudly cheered. So the whole "we thought the Cdn anthem would be snubbed" view is quite reasonable. Would the outcome had been any different in a US city with the US anthem percieved to be not being involved? I don't think so, so you can agree to disagree with me on that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-35797869249543334212008-07-27T00:37:00.000-07:002008-07-27T00:37:00.000-07:00May I point out the irony of someone complaining a...May I point out the irony of someone complaining about faux english twats, using the word twat.* <BR/><BR/>Anyway I'm touched the Canadians didn't boo GSQ, meaning there's one nation more hated than us, yay! (also giving us a target to aim for, post Obama)<BR/><BR/>*unless that was the joke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-17851790477568863032008-07-26T20:17:00.000-07:002008-07-26T20:17:00.000-07:00Might I remind you that Toronto was invited to joi...Might I remind you that Toronto was invited to join the league, and were chosen above your precious Portland to field a team.<BR/>--------------<BR/>Hopefully a mistake that won't be repeated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-17846382350159203182008-07-26T13:35:00.000-07:002008-07-26T13:35:00.000-07:00Anon @ 7/25 3:33 check your facts, brother, origin...Anon @ 7/25 3:33 check your facts, brother, original 6 NHL: Boston, New York, Detroit, Chicago, Montreal, Toronto. Hardly a Canadian league. Canadian game? yep; league? not so much. Truth is Canada, for whatever reason doesn't have the market wherewithall to support a full professional league of anything on their own.<BR/><BR/>Jeez, AC, I hope I never say anything on here to piss you off as bad as the TFC fans...<BR/><BR/>There were, however, two separate things going on. There was a rowdy partisan fan base who threw streamers and booed and then there were Canadians who figured the Anthem thing was just another example of expected US arrogance. <BR/><BR/>Asking a fan group like that to all of a sudden see the "big picture" is a losing proposition. They're not gonna change. <BR/><BR/>There are a batch of Canadians that feel quite defensive about US perceived arrogance in all things. They're gonna be prickly and quick to take offense at the slightest, even sometimes imagined, slights like this Anthem thing. I don't think it was done as anything other than an attempt to stand up for their Country of which they are justifiable proud. They were wrong and too early, but to anybody who's lived along that border and had family in that country can tell you, Canadian "neighborhood" issues with the US are another fact of life. (Perhaps they feel a little like MLS always being put down as third rate compared to Euro first division leagues.) <BR/><BR/>Did both things "hurt" MLS's attempt to put their best foot forward? Probably. But I honestly don't think it spoiled the effort. The show on the field was a good one. Player skills on both sides were impressive. I think viewers can make allowances for "houliganish" fans and a bit of misplaced nationalism. Could it have been better on those issues surrounding the game? yep, but the game itself reflected quite well on MLS, West Hamm and the concept of this kind of All Star event.ghostwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04432818511519917053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-87724946862556763702008-07-26T13:08:00.000-07:002008-07-26T13:08:00.000-07:00"bmantx said... Sorry AC, I think you are makin...<I>"bmantx said...<BR/><BR/> Sorry AC, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.<BR/><BR/> Toronto fans showed up in numbers like they have since day one. And they did exactly what they felt was in their interest.<BR/><BR/> They pay good money to do that in case you have have forgotten."</I><BR/><BR/><B>The Nazis showed up in big numbers in Nürnberg and gassed a few million Jews a few years later per their perogative at their own expense. <BR/>See how just because you pay for something and show up in big numbers doesn't mean you can act like whatever sort of jackass douche you feel like?</B><BR/><BR/><BR/> <I> July 25, 2008 4:29 PM <BR/>Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> Seeing I was at the game, am a staunch TFC supporter, and a F*CKING proud Canadian, I was genuinely confused as to what was going on with the flags and anthems. Being a part of the Soccer community since I could walk, I consider myself well versed in the etiquette of pre-game ceremonies. However, I'm gonna pose the question that seems to have gone by the way-side here...If the roles were reversed...what would YOU people have done??? You Americans seem to be all too ready to fight for everything, I'm all too curious to know how you would have reacted? I'm sure it wouldn't have been with a chorus of "um excuse me...but...um...I think there has been an oversight..."<BR/> Get over yourselves...and quit-yer-bitchin... </I><BR/><BR/>Actually the question hasn't gone un-addressed, I posted about 50 pages up that if you hear that it's another anthem you just clam up. <BR/>Or once again I ask the question: are Canadians tone deaf and do they think O Canada sounds anything like the Star Spangled Banner? If so; then they are tone deaf in addition to being retarded. <BR/><BR/>Basically your justification for it all is that you thought O Canada was going to come on, so as gut instinct you just boo anything that isn't O Canada (except that you faux English twats didn't boo the God Save The Queen) <BR/>It also doesn't explain why the small handful who showed up for Chicago's ass whipping of your kiddie club booed the anthem there as well. <BR/><BR/>TFC are a joke and so is any Canadian who thinks their behavior is/was even remotely acceptable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-10756597796986798952008-07-26T08:52:00.000-07:002008-07-26T08:52:00.000-07:00MLS is stupid to choose Toronto to host the game i...MLS is stupid to choose Toronto to host the game in the first place. If not for the artificial turf, we may see Liverpool and Steve Gerrard instead of West Ham and Dean Ashton. Let Toronto fans boo the empty BMO next time if they want.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-88337273374135935932008-07-26T08:22:00.000-07:002008-07-26T08:22:00.000-07:00You'd boo every MLS All-Star not connected to Cana...You'd boo every MLS All-Star not connected to Canada? Fine, but I'm not going to consider you a good fan for it. <BR/>It's a difference of opinion. What happened at the ASG isn't debatable, it's been widely reported and it was broadcast as well. It's whether or not a person thinks that's a fine way for fans to act, or not.A.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-69570272362004182262008-07-26T08:08:00.000-07:002008-07-26T08:08:00.000-07:00Sorry-- I side with TFC's fans on this one. I hat...Sorry-- I side with TFC's fans on this one. I hate Blanco, Beckman, and Donovan and I'd boo their appearance. If once on the pitch they did something useful-- I would celebrate it (i.e. Blanco's goal). It doesn't mean I hate the diving whiny punk any less.<BR/><BR/>The chanting for Brennan-- i get that as well. If the game were in my stadium, I'd want my player to be in as well.<BR/><BR/>Re: the national anthem. Sure it was rude but its worth the angst and pages and pages that have been written.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-53487677140418940592008-07-26T06:23:00.000-07:002008-07-26T06:23:00.000-07:00Personally, I'm not calling for Toronto to be push...Personally, I'm not calling for Toronto to be pushed out of MLS. My main point was that it was a farce to call them the "League's best fans". Many of these fans planned a protest for what should be a league celebration, which shows no appreciation for the league's consideration in placing the game there (don't say they wanted a sell-out, because the ASG has sold out for quite some time and with Becks and Blanco, it was a given) they booed and sang over the U.S. anthem, and then booed all the non-Canadian players. Throughout the match, even when the All-Stars were playing well, providing the stadium with perhaps the best soccer it's ever seen, they didn't really cheer or support the league team. They threw streamers at them instead, as they did to the commissioner on the broadcast. Best fans in MLS? That's a joke, because what did MLS do to Toronto to deserve such treatment? Let the team join the league? Bent their normal standard of demanding a plan for a grass field? Schedule the All-Star game there to ensure Toronto had a chance to see some of the league's best together? The league certainly didn't have anything to do with the Argonauts plan. Even that misguided protest doesn't explain away booing every MLS player with ties south of the border. People who act like this is about the anthem, well, that wasn't cool, but stop saying, "Forget the anthem!" as if it was the only disrespectful treatment of the league and the players and the game. It was one of many, and they repeated themselves far too often to be considered accidental by any stretch of the imagination.A.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-26297508367672912102008-07-26T02:34:00.000-07:002008-07-26T02:34:00.000-07:00At the anonymous poster that said they (being Toro...At the anonymous poster that said they (being Toronto) were invited into our "precious" league... ponder this:<BR/><BR/>You can invite your pretty little wannabe-hooligan-club back out of MLS. <BR/><BR/>There are about 10 US markets ready, willing and able. All of them far more advanced in infrastructure than their Canadian expansion candidates.<BR/><BR/>We don't need Toronto. Toronto needs us.<BR/><BR/>Canadians should "man-up" and develop their own professional soccer league... since so many of these posters seem to be so nationalistic and all. <BR/><BR/>For the record, I've been to Vancouver USL games a few times. Don't try to pull the wool over our eyes. Vancouver plays in a high school stadium worse than the high school stadium I played in during high school. Far worse than Community College standard.<BR/><BR/>Again, they need us, not the other way around. Developing Candadian soccer is not a US SOCCER duty!<BR/><BR/>BBSCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-21044333757454330362008-07-26T01:32:00.000-07:002008-07-26T01:32:00.000-07:00That is absolutely ridiculous to say that Andrea s...That is absolutely ridiculous to say that Andrea says things to get a rise out of people. She is just defending her argument. If you sing over another country's national anthem, that is wrong. Whether American fans in MLS do it or not (they don't), it's still wrong. So what TFC fans did was wrong.<BR/><BR/>Yes, in an official sense, the game was meaningless. But regardless of what any of you think, people abroad WERE watching it, and it is a representation of the league. Every game is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-77374921694739686042008-07-25T22:42:00.000-07:002008-07-25T22:42:00.000-07:00Amen. I was starting to grow tired of the streame...Amen. I was starting to grow tired of the streamer bit, but I let it go because I was generally pro-Toronto. But booing the national anthem and other MLS players has ended that. We're a league fighting for respect, and in the one game we can really show off our talent, the fans act like they're the enemy? Pathetic. Go ahead and put the Argonauts in BMO and let's cancel any plans to expand into Canada. They clearly don't want any support from outsiders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-38798944318435793152008-07-25T21:52:00.000-07:002008-07-25T21:52:00.000-07:00Absolutely spot on and thank you for having the st...Absolutely spot on and thank you for having the strength to say it. Every U.S. international soccer game I have ever been to the opposing teams national anthem is treated with respect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-11644613982051136242008-07-25T21:14:00.000-07:002008-07-25T21:14:00.000-07:00http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Warmingt...http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Warmington_Joe/2008/07/25/6260791-sun.php<BR/><BR/>"So much for following the old adage to never assume because it can make an "ass" out of "u" and "me"! "Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-71667472941991074072008-07-25T20:32:00.000-07:002008-07-25T20:32:00.000-07:00Heh, sorry if reading some of the comments is hars...Heh, sorry if reading some of the comments is harshing your buzz, Jim! Remember, it's a game, something to celebrate and enjoy. We may love it and revere it (and want more respect for it), but ultimately, it's a game. <BR/>O jogo bonito!A.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-45625249857713314262008-07-25T19:13:00.000-07:002008-07-25T19:13:00.000-07:00I dialog with SV readers all the time, but yes, it...I dialog with SV readers all the time, but yes, it is annoying when some act as if my opinion has been inflicted on them - like how dare I say what I think on my blog? If it strikes you as tiresome or immature that I remind people that they are under no burden to come to this blog or to read the posts in green, that's your opinion as well and I support your right to state it.A.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-49190217322069416982008-07-25T19:08:00.000-07:002008-07-25T19:08:00.000-07:00Personally, we are appalled by the actions of Toro...Personally, we are appalled by the actions of Toronto fans and wholeheartedly condemn these immature, delinquent people. In the future, it would best serve the interests of all to ban toronto from hosting one of these glorious MLS events.<BR/><BR/>Also, we would like to let everyone know that we will no longer be participating in gang violence or the lighting of illegal Mexican fireworks at Copias USA games.<BR/><BR/>Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5437561489188679737.post-29381368655831126582008-07-25T19:05:00.000-07:002008-07-25T19:05:00.000-07:00You're acting as if I haven't written numerous pos...You're acting as if I haven't written numerous posts about TFC fans being supportive of their team - I have. I've posted interviews from their players who say the fan support is incredible. Go and read my <A HREF="http://sidelineviews.blogspot.com/search/label/Toronto%20FC" REL="nofollow">Toronto</A> posts if you're looking for an overt anti-TFC bias. <BR/>I'm talking about the behavior I dislike, and why, more than anything else. I think Toronto fans acted badly in this case. There have been others. <BR/>If people read a lot about LD, watch him play and still think he's a horrible player and a punk (and many do) that's their right. <BR/>We're allowed to judge off what we actually see. I hope to visit Toronto one day when I can afford to, but I highly doubt that I'll see anything there that will make me think the way they acted at the All-Star game was Ok. The anthem treatment was only part of a poor showing, not an isolated element due to misunderstanding.A.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03617669285297119500noreply@blogger.com